"IT IS HER CHARACTER NOT HER PROFESSION THAT MAKES HER WHO SHE IS". A CHAT FROM THE "BENCH": ON WOMEN IN LAW PRACTICE. INTERVIEW!(CAREER WOMAN SERIES.)

Though in the legal profession, there is no lady at the Bar, but Gentlemen in skirts, I saw a need to look underneath this and discuss the issues peculiar to women in the legal profession.

This is an interesting Interview with an inspiring Icon, she who have gone from years of active Court Room practice, as a women in Nigeria,and now to the "Bench".

IT IS A MUST READ
For women in active law practice.
For young women aspiring for a career in Law.
For men with spouses in active Law practice.
And for parents too!
…promises to be an interesting read.
Read on.

(WE SKIP THE INTRODUCTORY PART FOR OBVIOUS REASONS)

WHAT ARE THE DIFFERENT WAYS BY WHICH LAW CAN BE PRACTICED IN NIGERIA?
First and foremost, every Lawyer is trained to be a Barrister and Solicitor, and it depends on what branch you want to take. In recent times, specialization is the in-thing and at the beginning you should be able to tell yourself “this is what I want to be”. There are two apex of the profession, it is either you go to the Bench or you become a Senior Advocate of Nigeria, either of those two need hard work, and you have to plan it to be able to achieve your goal. In other words, as a Lawyer, you have to concentrate on exactly what you want to be and then by dint of hard work you will achieve it.



CAN A LAWYER WHO IS NOT IN ACTIVE “COURT ROOM” PRACTICE AIM FOR THE BENCH, OR TO BE AN SAN?

There have been people, who were taken from the “Commercial sector” to go on the Bench, but a Lawyer can be anything other than being a Senior Advocate or going on the Bench, There are several lawyers who are “International lawyers”, doing international arbitration and commercial practice across the globe and so on, so it is not stereotype. At the beginning of studying law, you should able to know what you want to become, do you want to end up as an SAN or a Judge? Or be in Commercial practice, or purely Litigation.
Litigation is not just that you would end up as a Senior Advocate, there are so many of them who are not Senior Advocates but are making a whole lot of money in the Practice.



DO YOU AGREE WITH THE VIEW THAT WOMEN SHOULD NOT BE TOO INLVOLVED IN “ACTIVE COURT ROOM PRACTICE OF LAW” BECAUSE IT CONFLICTS WITH THEIR FAMILY LIFE?

I have a contrary view, there is no conflict about a woman who is in court room practice and family, and everything is a question of planning. There are so many women, who are litigation based, and they do this litigation to the best of their ability, it doesn’t even affect their homes and they have children. Women have the ability to multitask, a woman can be a mother and also be into Law practice, a woman can be a Banker and also be a mother, it is a question of planning. I for one, it doesn’t affect my home, because everything is planned. Before I came on the Bench, I was in serious practice, because our chambers was litigation based, purely litigation, you can be called upon during the weekend or at any time. You would not say, because you are married, you will not do your work.

The only way it will conflict in my own opinion, is when you give more to practice and less to your home. That is why I say it is about planning, and some Nigerians do not know how to plan. For instance, you wake up early as a mother and do your chores, then you leave home by 8am. By 8am, the children shouldn’t be at home, but if the court is in a faraway place, maybe a court at the Island and you live on the Mainland, (Lagos State.) you have to leave early enough to be able to make court.
Practice is very strenuous and tedious, because you may work very late. You might just be closing at 4pm and then brief/client comes in, you cannot say because it is conflicting with your home you will not do it, especially where you are working for someone. You have to work it out with your spouse in such a way that there wouldn’t be any conflict. For instance, I was telling them in court yesterday, how come in this town, it is only women that do school run. Where I practiced, men do school run. If the city is so complex and the work places are far from the children’s school, how do you pick them up? So you make arrangements. Some of the things that need to be done may not be done by you, but you will still execute them.

Also you must marry somebody who understands, so that you will work harmoniously in such a way that your practice will not be affected. I will give you an example of a couple, the wife on her way to work drops off the kids at school, the husband, because he has flexible time and he does not work for anyone, he is his own boss. He does the school run in the afternoon, to bring back the children from school. And whoever comes back first will have to take care of the kids until the other person returns. So it is a question of balance. You must have an understanding spouse to achieve your dreams, if you don’t have an understanding spouse, it will be difficult, that is when you will find conflicts, because they will tell you things like, “Go and take a Ministry Job or a Teaching Job so that you will close in the afternoon time”.



WHAT CHALLENGES DO WOMEN IN ACTIVE LAW PRACTICE FACE?

There are so many challenges, but you have to surmount it yourself. For instance, a woman cannot go to the drinking bar, it is in those places that you get some of the big briefs. That is a big challenge. When men close from work they can go to those places, and from there they get introduced to some big persons, but for a woman, if they see you there more than once, you will be stigmatized. Those nocturnal meetings, you cannot make them. You may be able to make them if you are a single, but if you are married, it is a no no, if you do it many times you will start having problems in your marriage. However, if someone invites you, “I have a brief for you, come and take it by 10pm”, you can reject such brief and say “No, 10pm is too late for me to be out”, if it is something between “6pm and 9pm” it is understandable.

Then another challenge is, the clients look down on women, they believe a man is better when it comes to advocacy or anything for that matter, and unless you prove yourself, there wouldn’t be able to know or assess your capability. It is the general view in the society. They will tell you it is a man’s world, but we struggle as women to say it is not a man’s worlworld.
And then again, some women do not have self confidence, because of this gender thing. It is something you grew up with, whatever you do, they will be like, “ Don’t you know you are a woman?” it is because of our set up. We are in an African society, they will say, “Behave like a woman” and such words. Then you will find yourself growing up, thinking, “I’m a woman”, unless you come from a home where your mother is of a very strong character, and you also may have that strong character and the will power to excel, and you will not be pull down by being a woman or not, if a woman puts her mind into everything, she will achieve her goals.

However, for a woman, because of the gender prejudices, a woman needs to work ten times harder than a man, to be able to make it. Another challenge is that, when you are making it, even if you are making it by dint of hard work, or merit, they will not believe it is by merit because you are a woman. They will come with things like “bottom power”, or “I.M”. When a male Judge is appointed, it is because he is too brilliant and it is based on merit, but for a woman, the general opinion is that it is because of your parents or your husband, or someone you know somewhere. So that gender prejudice is a big challenge to a female Legal practitioner, but you must surmount those challenges to be able to make it.



HOW CAN A WOMAN IN ACTIVE LAW PRACTICE, BUILD HER SELF CONFIDENCE?

You are the one to build the self confidence in yourself. Don’t let anybody walk over you, be it your husband, brother, your male co worker, or your colleague. First and foremost, you must tell yourself, I am a human being, the only difference between myself and a man is because he is a man, the gender difference. But for mental abilities and capabilities, you are at per. And if I work hard enough, I will be able to excel. That is one way of building self confidence. And then, for instance most of them when addressing court will listen to asides, and you will be derailed, rather than focus on addressing the court, you are listening and answering. No, it is lack of self confidence. If you have self confidence, you will ignore those comments and go ahead and address the court.
Even if you are a Banker, or an insurance practitioner, whatever you may be, even a civil servant, you must be very hard working and committed to your job.

The only way you can excel above a man is when you work very hard and people see it, which is obvious that you are hard working. When you are not there, your hard work will become your testimonial, it will speak for you. But when you say, “I’m a woman”, instead of coming to court and arguing your case, you come to court and take a date.



WHAT COULD BE DONE TO CHANGE THESE SENSE OF PREJUDICES AGAINST WOMEN?

Hard work by women, first and foremost, and also sensitization, not only in the media but in the homes. When you have a girl child, begin to build confidence in that girl child, until she goes into the world, but if you train the child in such a way that you tell her, “oh, your brother who is a boy is better than you, or “sit down you are a girl”, etc, “don’t talk too much, girls don’t talk too much”. By so doing, you are depriving the child her right of expression. Words like “shut up” instead of “keep quiet” will make the child withdrawn, she will not be able to express herself. And then when the boy wants to talk down on the girl, you will also advise the boy ,”the fact that she is a girl does not mean she is a lesser human being than yourself”. By so doing you are also building the self confidence in that child. Then again, the men can also help. There are so many men who are not chauvinistic. If we find them, we advice them to help carry the message.

Also, one-on-one enlightenment, telling a friend who tells another friend. Some women, however, feel a man must do everything for them, they depend on men, in fact they hang their lives on a man, it is wrong. As a woman, and firstly as a human being, you should be able to do things for yourself, because having this mentality of, “a man must do everything for you” will get you disappointed at the end of the day. You may say, “ok I have found a man who will take care of all my needs”, men get easily tired of relationships, he may see somebody, not even prettier, but somebody that tickles his fancy, he will leave you and move on.

That is why, most times if a woman is not working, a full time house wife, you may find her always having conflict with her husband, because she doesn’t have any power, she is a dependant to the man, like an appendage, it is what the man gives you that you can have, and sometimes you may say “I am entitled to this, and he will say, “No, you are not entitled to it, it is not a right it is a privilege.”



"FEMALE LAWYERS ARE NOT SUBMISSIVE, AND THEREFORE SHOULDN’T BE CONSIDERED FOR MARRIAGE", IS IT CORRECT?

It is not correct to say that, it is also a societal norm, “oh, once she is a Lawyer, she is a tigress, she is an iron Lady, just because she is in practice, but you may still find somebody in the bank, who is even more aggressive than a Lawyer in practices. It depends on the character of the person, it is not the profession that makes you what you are, ok, the fact that you are a teacher, that makes you more submissive to your husband? No, there are some teachers who are very aggressive and are tyrants at home. It is about the person who you are. There is a lady that appears before me, she has a very gentle mien, so soft spoken, when she is talking in court you can hardly hear her, she doesn’t have the force of words and the force of character, that does not mean that she is not a lawyer, or cannot make a good lawyer. But a lawyer, whether female or male, need that aggression, and strength of character, to be able to excel, because if you do not have the strength of character, how will you be able to convince your client, it will be difficult. So the view is not entirely true.

What even is submission, if your husband asks you to do the thing that is right, you will do it, if it is something that is wrong, will you do it? Submission to me means, working in harmony with your husband, it not that everything he tells you, you must do whether right or wrong that makes you submissive. Submission means respecting him, respecting his views, and then when he is talking, you shouldn’t talk, and then hear him out. It is so for all human beings, and not just a man and wife. When two people are talking at the same time, nobody will listen. It is the same thing in a marriage. And then the husband should also listen. Most views on submission is that a woman should turn into a zombie.


WHAT ARE SOME SHORTCOMINGS IN THE PROFESSION ATTRIBUTABLE TO WOMEN WHICH THEY SHOULD AVOID?

As a lady do not have the mindset that you have to go through a man before you can achieve anything. For instance, even in schools, those girls that use to block lecturers, it is lack of self confidence, they believe that as women they wouldn’t be able to pass the exam unless they sleep with lectures. It also happens in legal practice, for instance in NBA, you see them trying to reach those very senior wealthy lawyers who have made it, maybe to introduce them to clients and sometimes this old men take advantage of them because they are women.

Women should avoid the pitfall of not being prepared, or being ill prepared, she should avoid not being committed to the job, not having a passion for the job, and she should avoid being dishonest, because when you are dishonest and you lack intergrity, in no time everybody will know that that is who you are, and honesty and integrity if lacking, you wouldn’t be able to build trust.



IN YOUR OPINION, WHY ARE THERE MORE MALE SANs THAN FAMALES?

Why they are less is because most women believe that it is better to go to the Bench than to become a Senior Advocate, and that is also looking down on yourself, saying “No, I cannot be a Senior Advocate because I am a woman, those women who are senior advocate how did they achieve it? It's by breaking the glass ceiling. You will follow the rules, ok. You will go and look at the guidelines of becoming a Senior Advocate and you will work towards it, and then most time, because the job tends to be tedious, women will want to go to the Bench.

It is very tedious being a Senior Advocate because you have to be established, not only being established, you have to sustain it, and then marriage and child bearing also can affect that. But those women who are of strong character, like the Funke Adekoyas of this world, who is a Senior Advocate. She has children, she is married, she is in a man’s world like they would say, but it is not a man’s world. It’s a world for both a man and a woman, and unless you tell yourself that you can, you might not be able to achieve it. I for one, from day one, I have told myself that I would go on the Bench. Right from when I was in secondary school, because of an experience I had in court that inspired me, but a lot of people think it was because my father was a Lawyer that’s why I became a Lawyer.

WHAT ARE THE SOCIAL FACTORS TO CONSIDER IN ASPIRING TO BE A JUDGE IN NIGERIA, IS “CONNECTION” A MAJOR FACTOR?

Nowadays connection is part of it. It is in anything you do in Nigeria now, but what is this connection that they talk about? We went to school, from Kindergarten, to Primary school, to Secondary School, we went to University. We have worked. Those people you met on your way who are your friends, and colleagues, when you meet them to assist you, is that not connection?
You have built goodwill, and as you go along in life and begin to network, for instance I have attended several International Conferences, even before I came to the Bench, and now anywhere in Nigeria, because of my activism at the Bar, there is no State in Nigeria that I do not have the phone number of at least, one lawyer that I can call incase I need assistance and that is the goodwill and connections I have built over the years, atleast I can call up to three of them, and one may say “I know this woman, let me assist her”. That is goodwill, that is what they call connection in Nigeria.

Some other factors to be considered are Integrity, Commitment and Passion. Prayers also is the key. When I wanted to come on the Bench, I went to look for the guideline, there is a guideline, and I began to work toward it. For instances, you need 'ten judgements', you need to work towards it, because if you don't have those requirements, I dont know the connection that can help you, and Nigeria is evolving now. The bottom line is hard work, because if you are hard working, when you are not there and they say they need to do this job, others will say, “go and look for her.”


WHAT SHOULD A YOUNG PERSON WHO HAVE DECIDED TO PURSUE A CAREER IN LAW CONSIDER?

First you must be able to determine by yourself what exactly you want to be, where do you want to end up? Do you want to be a Law Teacher in the University? Do you want to go on the Bench? Do you want to become a Senior Advocate of Nigeria? Do you want to work in the Legal department in the Bank? Then you have to pursue it by hard work, and you must have a Passion for whatever you do, because if you do not have passion, you will lose faith easily, and become frustrated on the job.


WOMEN ARE EXPECTED TO ANNOUNCE THEIR APPEARANCES AFFIXING "MISS" OR "MRS" DO YOU AGREE THAT IT SHOULD BE SCRAPPED?

My Principal will always tell me, raise your voice, say you are “Miss”, because Mr. right might just be somewhere in the court room. For those that are divorced, they should say “Miss”. What is the problem with saying “Miss or Mrs.”, it is that lack of self confidence, why will you listen to what people are saying? My twin sister got married seven years before me, and I was proud to announce my appearance as a “Miss.” I never allowed anybody, some will even tell me, “when are you going to marry?” I would say, “as soon as I find somebody”, and they will say "there are men everywhere", I will say, “No, there are so many irresponsible men, I am waiting for the responsible one” and next time he will not ask me again. That is the character I have built over the years, I don’t let anybody walk over me.